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And concerning the latest hype on all the blogs about the need guys have to read the girls mind and bla bla bla
For heavens sake, girls speak up! If you need to excuse yourself, by all means DO SO!!!
If you are freezing cold, suggest a warmer place!
No guy wants a girl dying of frost bite on the date.
How are people ever supposed to learn communication if they never communicate anything?
G-d gave us words to distinguish us from other animals (See The Kuzari). Use them!
I have yet to see a guy reject a girl because she went to the bathroom on a date.
If he did, he has serious issues and you wouldn't want to be married to him, trust me.
He probably isn't human.
Now don't worry, it took me time to learn this.
When I started dating two years ago, I would wait for excruciatingly long periods of time because I felt uncomfortable disrupting the flow of the date, no pun intended.
It took me a bit more than a year to come to my senses. The first time I excused myself on a date and went to the bathroom, the guy started telling me how proud he is that I actually went to the bathroom.
I would have probably liked to talk about the weather instead, but it was still nice to hear a voice of human recognition and normalcy from someone.
That being said... there are certain ettiquette things which should be covered.
There are certain expectations that span across the larger dating world.
1) For example, the guy is expected to plan the dates. If he does not do so, he isn't necessarily an awful guy.
If a guy called me now and said he has no idea where to go, I could either jump in and take the mans role and plan the date (so tempting), or I could say: "Oh, it's Tuesday, I'm sure that by Thursday you'll be able to figure something wonderful out."
2) Cabs vs. Subway. I used to theorize with friends that it is better to have guys take you in a cab for coffee than to take you on the subway for dinner. That was when we lives midtown. Living in less central areas makes it more difficult and where I live it is definitely more acceptable to use the subway.
But those things can be discussed. If a guy doesn't do something he is supposed to, bring it up in a normal way and see how he deals with it. He might be a jerk, but might be a mentsch who is slightly confused in life.
And finally, people aren't mind readers. Guys aren't and surprise surprise, girls aren't mind readers either.
No I don't know that when a guy says I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you he is actually getting cold feet and wants to leave.
This is something I struggle with on a constant basis.
Because somewhere, I just want to be understood. I want someone special to know what I am thinking without me having to say it. I am spoiled by Hollywood.
But I understand that real life doesn't work that way.
If something disturbs me, I will try to bring it up and I would like for the guy I am dating to do the same to me.
People are not mind readers (B"H). Unless you communicate, they will not know what you are thinking.
ReplyDeleteLove the message, fantastic post!
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with the very idea of "what guys should do," because people really do have different expectations and situations, like you mentioned with the car/subway issue. As a grad student without a car, having to rent/cab can get very expensive very quickly. Borrowing isn't simple either, especially when considering insurance and the different driving laws and styles (New York, anyone?) in addition to finding a willing lender. Ideally, I'd have a car and always drive over to pick a woman up, but that's not a realistic expectation for me, even when that's the local custom.
Having never lived or grown up in Borro Park, Brooklyn, or the "Five Towns" should I ever make my way out there to date someone, I would have no idea about the customs or expectations for dating that they've decided or established for themselves. Chances are, I would have to ask a Shadchan -and even then, they may not really know all the little details. In fact, I may very likely "make mistakes" or blunder just because my own experience, expectations, or circumstances are different than theirs.
A woman (and her family and community) can expect a guy to pick her up, but with me -sadly -that's very unlikely to happen. It can be limiting, but that's reality for ya.
Ish Yehudi, this is why, as I learned from Prof Viviana Zelizer in Intro to Sociology (25 years ago), people tend to marry people from similar backgrounds and communities to their own. A Five Towns girl will probably be happier with a Five Towns guy, or a guy from a similar community. Are there exceptions? Sure. But it's harder to make it come about, and it's harder to make it work.
DeleteIt's amazing to think that even in the tiny worldwide Orthodox community, there are these subtle variations in community mores that distinguish between people, but we have partly brought that upon ourselves.
My parents came from different countries (US & UK), but were brought up in similar neighborhoods in major cities, with fairly similar degrees of religious observance. They probably had more similarities than frum guy from Teaneck and a frum girl from the Five Towns.
So my expectations of the guy role depends.
ReplyDeleteWhen i lived at home (OOT) i expected to plan the dates when the guy came in. I have driven on dates many times when the guy didnt have a car,it was last minute..etc.
What is not acceptable?
When I moved "in town" and had a guy show up with no plan at all...i didnt hold that against him but it was off-putting.