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This post is challenging to write because from my experience in the Heights as a Shadchan and a dater, there is much less (I'm being nice, there is practically no) structure to the dating world.
The charedi world has rules. You follow them, you go through the shadchan, you know that three dates is one stage and four is the next... and on and on you go.
In the Heights world, everyone belongs to a highly specific community, of which they are the only member.
I am right wing on kol isha and kemach yoshon but left wing when it comes to birth control... you know the type? No, I don't know the type.
I am super frum when it comes to learning but I don't care about minyan.... so it isn't shayach.
I would never go out with someone who wears denim skirts but we'd have to go to movies together.... know the type?
WAKE UP! You aren't types. We aren't types. We are a bunch of super-complicated individuals who only get more messed up as they stay in this crazy mix of a neighborhood.
Nevertheless, throughout my year of living here and dating, I have picked up on some of the unwritten rules which are a relative guide for most daters here.
There is a distinction between going on dates and actually dating.
After you are asked out/ask someone out/ are set up...
You go out...
on dates.
You aren't dating that person though until you have "THE CONVO".
"THE CONVO" is where you sit down, usually at the end of the third-sixth date and discuss how you are feeling about the relationship, whether you think there is long term potential, and what your status is... if at the end of that conversation you decide to continue... you are DATING.
That is when you are actually dating until you decide to marry or not. But that means that you don't have to wonder every date whether there will be a next one, it works more like an actual relationship.
From my experience, guys hate having "the convo" and if they could avoid it they do. If they could say at the end of every date..."We'll be in touch"/ "So when is a good time for you to go out again?" they would do that straight till the canopy.
The worst thing is when at the end of a date, the guy will look at you and say: "So, what's happening?"
No Way Hozay! I am not talking first! You tell me how you feel. Be a man, let me know what you think, and I'll respond.
I don't know why people are so scared of talking, but I honestly hate having to be the one to pull out the conversation card and squeeze the emotion out of the guys one bit at a time.
I came across this blog by accident. good stuff!
ReplyDeleteI have a colour spectrum analogy- black and white seem to match up neatly, its much more difficult to match blues, greens, and reds, all of which have countless shades. Is conformity the way to go or should we let the colours blend?
I think there's definitely merit to laying down some dating rules. Start a revolution! Good luck!
I wrote a whole post about "THE CONVO" or as I like to call it, "The State of the Union Address" http://walkingthegreyline.blogspot.com/2010/03/state-of-union-address.html
ReplyDeleteI agree that people need to be far more flexible when it comes to "types" and as many will find out once they start seriously dating, get engaged, and married, their own "type" can change to make a better unified fit with their spouse.
I also agree with the need for some sort of rules. If dating is for tachlis --> marriage, then there needs to be some sort of understood stages or regulations for that process to be achieved. They need not be rigid, because that's what the right wing people live by without compromise, but there needs to be some loose structure that allows for natural progression from "going out" to "dating" to "engaged" to "married."
(From a Heights female)
ReplyDeleteWhat I find to be most difficult in the Heights is actually getting people to the point of going out. The girls are doing most of the asking out, sometimes through a friend and sometimes personally.
It seems like everyone is increasingly turning to SYAS because they get tired of no real-life matchmaking going on. Friends aren't making matches, and I'm not aware of any shadchans here except YU Connects' shiurims' unstructured approach of throwing together 30 girls and 7 guys in one room with sushi. Friends aren't even suggesting matches for friends to consider, much less helping people make it happen. Likewise, other than the YU Connects shiurim, I haven't seen any other "singles" event (I've been here almost a year). Even all the normal social events cost 15-25+ bucks a pop, so a lot of us can't afford to go to many of them. Invites to informal social events like onegs never get to "fresh blood," so it's the same group of people going to them every time.
It's not necessarily that we don't have a system, it's that no one wants to do the work such a system requires. It's easier to whine about it and then whine about paying the money to make SYAS do all the work.
In the past, YU Connects has hosted events at the shul here. The shul has also had singles dinners in the past that were hosted in people's apartments and ended with an oneg at the shul. If you are interested in organizing another event, I'm sure the shul would help you put it together.
DeleteI'm sticking to old fashioned matchmaking at this point. So far three successful set-ups in a few weeks, so it's going well enough.
DeleteOne can't really say how a community operates unless one really lives in it; not all things are black and white, even in the chassidishe world.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a touchy-feely person, so getting emotion out of a guy isn't really my mission. See, we are all different! :)
But I have noticed less manly men nowadays, unwilling to put themselves out there out of fear of rejection. Take it on the chin, dude! Walk tall! Who knows, we may say yes!
Wow! Easier said than done.
DeleteEven "manly men" don't like being rejected and, frankly, most women I know wouldn't like the types of guys who either have that thick of an emotional armor or the lack of emotional range to not care about rejection.
Of course no one likes to be rejected. But the other option is not approaching females or putting it all on her, as Tania mentioned, when guys say, "What's happening?" What do YOU want, dude?
DeleteQuote:"But I have noticed less manly men nowadays, unwilling to put themselves out there out of fear of rejection. Take it on the chin, dude! Walk tall! Who knows, we may say yes!"
DeleteCan I ask why it must be the gut that does the asking? As someone that has asked out girls on enough occasions to have received mt fair share of yes's and no's there is always one response i found perplexing: "Why did it take you sol long to ask me?" or something along those lines. Why is it wrong to want the woman to make the first move?
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ReplyDeleteYou live in an area that's mostly Spanish, and you don't know that "Hozay" is spelled Jose? Oy!
ReplyDeleteUgh, I dislike going on dates. Truth be told, I'm not much a fan of "dating" either. I think I'm more inclined towards relationships, though. If I could, I'd probably skip much of the initial "dates" or "dating" phase (even the sound of it is so artificial and formal to me) and get to the relationship. I think that's where you really meet and learn about the other person. But that's just me.
ReplyDeleteHow do you get to the relationship part without the dates to weed people out for the easy reasons? At face value, that sounds like a recipe for heartache to jump in so far so fast.
DeleteI do a lot of weeding before deciding to ask a woman out, and/or date her.
DeleteWhile I get the idea of taking time -and I'm not one to rush towards marriage -I don't like the way the community handles "dates" and "dating."
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